Poor DEF Quality?

[blahargoue]

I threw a P20ee code 20 miles after putting Walmart Supertech DEF in my truck. I have 51k trouble free miles on my '17 EcoDiesel. Code says the SCR Catalyst system operating below efficiency. Ram says the first thing to check is DEF quality. I reset the ECM and the same code came up 25 miles later. I live 2 hours from the nearest dealer so I drained (pumped) out most of my DEF tank and refilled with Peak DEF. No codes have returned after 250 miles.

Guessing here, but I assume that my Walmart DEF either didn't meet the 32 5% concentrate level or exceeded the mineral content level per ISO standards. I've used SuperTech before without incident. My 2.5 gallon jugs were sealed so I don't think it was tampered with. I did notice that Peak and Valvoline say the meet the ISO standard. SuperTech just says approved for use... I think I will start exclusively using Peak just to be safe. Of course I will take the truck in under the 70k CA emissions warranty should I continue to have problems.

I hope it was just bad DEF but I thought I'd post this for your information. Any thoughts?

 

[boosti]

I had a similar problem with using a different brand when I brought my vehicle for service at a private mechanic for oil change and filters. The mechanic apparently didn’t use Blue DEF brand which was always used. Insist they use the right oil and DEF fluid.

 

[John]

All DEF is the same. Maybe it was old.

 

[FloridaRamMan]

I threw a P20ee code 20 miles after putting Walmart Supertech DEF in my truck. I have 51k trouble free miles on my '17 EcoDiesel. Code says the SCR Catalyst system operating below efficiency. Ram says the first thing to check is DEF quality. I reset the ECM and the same code came up 25 miles later. I live 2 hours from the nearest dealer so I drained (pumped) out most of my DEF tank and refilled with Peak DEF. No codes have returned after 250 miles.

Guessing here, but I assume that my Walmart DEF either didn't meet the 32 5% concentrate level or exceeded the mineral content level per ISO standards. I've used SuperTech before without incident. My 2.5 gallon jugs were sealed so I don't think it was tampered with. I did notice that Peak and Valvoline say the meet the ISO standard. SuperTech just says approved for use... I think I will start exclusively using Peak just to be safe. Of course I will take the truck in under the 70k CA emissions warranty should I continue to have problems.

I hope it was just bad DEF but I thought I'd post this for your information. Any thoughts?

Thanks for this post...I think I may have the same problem, although we have used the Walmart DEF in past with no check engine light problems. Any easy way to pump out the DEF...and, wondering if I should purchase something to read codes in event this happens on the road (we tow a trailer over the summers and typically cover 15k miles plus over 4 months or so)...

 

[blahargoue]

All DEF is the same. Maybe it was old.

I was reading some independent lab reports and while all DEF is supposed to be a mixture of 32.5% urea, it's the quality of the distilled water that varies. Walmart was very high in iron and calcium which some times can lead to the clogging of the sensors and injector (wasn't my problem). I have since drained my DEF tank and a dip test showed my SuperTech mixture was only 23% urea. Old, bad batch, who knows? I refilled with Peak was tested fairly high for lack of mineral content. No issue so far since switching in 460 miles of driving.

 

[John]

Good to hear you got it fixed. I've been using both Blue DEF and Supertech and (knock on wood) never any issues over 50K miles. I do always check the date for freshness.

 

[blahargoue]

Thanks for this post...I think I may have the same problem, although we have used the Walmart DEF in past with no check engine light problems. Any easy way to pump out the DEF...and, wondering if I should purchase something to read codes in event this happens on the road (we tow a trailer over the summers and typically cover 15k miles plus over 4 months or so)...

There are a couple of good videos on draining the DEF tank. Basically there is a quick disconnect where the filler tube connects to the tank. Pop off the filler tube and insert the suction end of a basic hand suction pump into the tank until you feel it bottom. Then pump out the contents into a container. My pump (bought at NAPA for $17) required only about 4 strokes for the DEF to begin to drain. It siphoned out on it's own after that.

 

[blahargoue]

Good to hear you got it fixed. I've been using both Blue DEF and Supertech and (knock on wood) never any issues over 50K miles. I do always check the date for freshness.

I too have used Supertech several times in the past without incident. Ironically I paid $7.88 for 2.5 gallons of Supertech. I bought Peak Blue DEF at my local rural NAPA store for a little under $10 for 2.5 gallons. A couple of bucks certainly isn't going to break the bank.

 

[FloridaRamMan]

There are a couple of good videos on draining the DEF tank. Basically there is a quick disconnect where the filler tube connects to the tank. Pop off the filler tube and insert the suction end of a basic hand suction pump into the tank until you feel it bottom. Then pump out the contents into a container. My pump (bought at NAPA for $17) required only about 4 strokes for the DEF to begin to drain. It siphoned out on it's own after that.

Thanks. I am going to NAPA and I am going pump to pump it out.

 

[TC Diesel]

The API Cert of 67.5/32.5 concentrate consist of Deionized water 67.5 DI and 32.5 Urea. its NOT distilled water DW.

I ran concentrate of 10%-15 Urea and 80/85% DW in my 2015 Eco, 2016 and earlier Ram DEF vehicles DO NOT have Urea Sensor in Tank, 2017+ the sensor is triggered at 22% Urea, So if you add 2.5 DEF and 1 Gallon DW that puts you at 24% Urea Concentrate , If you run lower contrate you will likely never see Injector crystallization.

Here's My 2013 Cummins, I practice the same for My 2015 Eco. NEVER have any of My Bluetech Motors triggered DEF/SCR/DPF codes.

API Cert is a Joke IMO and puts the entire DEF system at risk for a cert to Meet CAA laws at near 0 NOx only 2% of Driving.

 

[blahargoue]

The API Cert of 67.5/32.5 concentrate consist of Deionized water 67.5 DI and 32.5 Urea. its NOT distilled water DW.

I ran concentrate of 10%-15 Urea and 80/85% DW in my 2015 Eco, 2016 and earlier Ram DEF vehicles DO NOT have Urea Sensor in Tank, 2017+ the sensor is triggered at 22% Urea, So if you add 2.5 DEF and 1 Gallon DW that puts you at 24% Urea Concentrate , If you run lower contrate you will likely never see Injector crystallization.

Here's My 2013 Cummins, I practice the same for My 2015 Eco. NEVER have any of My Bluetech Motors triggered DEF/SCR/DPF codes.

API Cert is a Joke IMO and puts the entire DEF system at risk for a cert to Meet CAA laws at near 0 NOx only 2% of Driving.

Good info, thanks

 

[TC Diesel]

Anytime, many DEF/SCR problem(s) can be eliminate bye just checking the DEF, the Refacto-meter take less than minute to check and cost about $50.00. The Dealers are wide eyed when you reach into the Center compartment and Show the longing of DEF Concentrate and date, mileage.

IMO its best to keep Fuel Tank & DEF full when convenient, and try NOT to drop below 1/4 Fuel tank in Hot summer months.

 

[John]

Looks like TC and myself are getting along great. Is something wrong?

 

[TC Diesel]

No....We may lock antlers from time to time but both of us have the same goals.

I also tip My had to Boostn, He has allow differences to be hammer out by the participants NOT the Mod.

 

[blahargoue]

Anytime, many DEF/SCR problem(s) can be eliminate bye just checking the DEF, the Refacto-meter take less than minute to check and cost about $50.00. The Dealers are wide eyed when you reach into the Center compartment and Show the longing of DEF Concentrate and date, mileage.

IMO its best to keep Fuel Tank & DEF full when convenient, and try NOT to drop below 1/4 Fuel tank in Hot summer months.

That's sound advice. Which is exactly why I drained and refilled the DEF first instead of heading to dealer. (Even though CA mandates a 70 or 80k emissions warranty depending on the part). I figure I have at minimum 20k more miles left before that warranty expires.

 

[FloridaRamMan]

Anytime, many DEF/SCR problem(s) can be eliminate bye just checking the DEF, the Refacto-meter take less than minute to check and cost about $50.00. The Dealers are wide eyed when you reach into the Center compartment and Show the longing of DEF Concentrate and date, mileage.

IMO its best to keep Fuel Tank & DEF full when convenient, and try NOT to drop below 1/4 Fuel tank in Hot summer months.

What is a 'Refractor-meter'? And, is this thread recommending adding water to dilute the amount of urea so as to protect the sensor? This is very confusing. BTW, I did drain the DEF tank..pretty messy as it was full..put in 2.5gal of PEAK and gauge still reads 100%! (drove it a few miles).

 

[SCovelli]

The API Cert of 67.5/32.5 concentrate consist of Deionized water 67.5 DI and 32.5 Urea. its NOT distilled water DW.

I ran concentrate of 10%-15 Urea and 80/85% DW in my 2015 Eco, 2016 and earlier Ram DEF vehicles DO NOT have Urea Sensor in Tank, 2017+ the sensor is triggered at 22% Urea, So if you add 2.5 DEF and 1 Gallon DW that puts you at 24% Urea Concentrate , If you run lower contrate you will likely never see Injector crystallization.

Here's My 2013 Cummins, I practice the same for My 2015 Eco. NEVER have any of My Bluetech Motors triggered DEF/SCR/DPF codes.

API Cert is a Joke IMO and puts the entire DEF system at risk for a cert to Meet CAA laws at near 0 NOx only 2% of Driving.

Please forgive me I'm new to this diesel world, I just picked up my 1500 about two weeks ago. Just to reiterate, every 2.5 gal of Peak DEF I pour in the tank, I also add 1 gal of Distilled Water. Is it that easy?

 

[CAVEMANN]

A refractometer is a device that measures the specific gravity of the fluid, I bought mine from Amazon for $25.00, came with a nice case too, they also have a tester like an old style antifreeze or battery tester with the floating balls, I don't add fluid without checking it first.

 

[FloridaRamMan]

Please forgive me I'm new to this diesel world, I just picked up my 1500 about two weeks ago. Just to reiterate, every 2.5 gal of Peak DEF I pour in the tank, I also add 1 gal of Distilled Water. Is it that easy?

A refractometer is a device that measures the specific gravity of the fluid, I bought mine from Amazon for $25.00, came with a nice case too, they also have a tester like an old style antifreeze or battery tester with the floating balls, I don't add fluid without checking it first.

So there is some ideal level of specific gravity to either reduce or increase the content of the urea, and this is supposed to lessen the chance that an injector will get plugged or something? I am extremely reluctant to not follow mfg recommendations on anything. I noticed in some of the YouTube videos that some people have water ONLY in their DEF tanks...is this legal (does it violate any warranties) and/or wise?

 

[FloridaRamMan]

So there is some ideal level of specific gravity to either reduce or increase the content of the urea, and this is supposed to lessen the chance that an injector will get plugged or something? I am extremely reluctant to not follow mfg recommendations on anything. I noticed in some of the YouTube videos that some people have water ONLY in their DEF tanks...is this legal (does it violate any warranties) and/or wise?

Are there any threads on this forum related to diesel fuel quality ("dirty" and/or too much sulfur, etc.); I am wondering if there are better or worse brands, if the engine can run on such fuel but that the sensors/engine light will come on, and if there is a way to test the quality of the fuel as apparently some are doing with the DEF. I got a major flashing engine light after fueling outside of Orlando...I had put in only about 5 gallons and stopped as the fuel seemed especially thick and I was suspecting some poor quality biodiesel had been added to their tanks....I went to a WAWA, filled up the rest of the tank, and the engine light went off...