Service Electronic Throttle Control ( Intake butterfly valves and Motor controls)

[Boomer56]

Service Electronic Throttle Control ( Intake butterfly valves and Motor controls)
I’m at wits end on this, I bought a 4x4 2016 Ram Eco diesel w 134,000 miles 2 months ago that I have been getting ready to flat tow behind my Motorhome for the last few years that I can! I’m old and Retired now!
When I bought it someone before me took out the afterburner thing before the muffler and did a tune, effectively removing the need to use DEF fluid and I’m assuming to get rid of the Check engine light and it ran fairly well! I read on these forums about people doing the same thing and taking the DEF tank out to increase fuel capacity for extended range but never clearly step by step read where anyone has done it successfully and then decided to go a different way since at that point I was getting 27 mpg on highway! Instead of using it for extended range, I wanted to utilize the DEF tank area for extra battery, air compressor and tank when I go off road and read Elite Diesels Tuning thing and talked to them about how they could adjust the tune for that, so I bought the kit!
It finally came in and My Jason and I started with the EGR delete and found so much crap in the intake that we decided to remove and clean and start pulling everything apart! Finally got the intake of and it was so clogged that those butterfly valve on half the intake runners were stuck wide open!
I’ve been a Service Tech all my life and assumed Car technology has been ahead of most automated controls and with the intake butterfly assembly with switches on both runners that control those valves would be tied to the ECModule telling what position those valves were in and simply trigger the motor that rotates the motor in the correct position to the open and closed!

Here’s the big question:
Like I said my son was helping me and I’m retired and the new intake came in during the middle of the week and I wanted it running! I didn’t rotate the Butterfly valves before putting the motor back on thinking I didn’t need to! I cleaned and cleaned the runner out as carefully as I could and reassembled it! Two days later I was ready to fire it up which I did with no problems at all waited for my son to come back to put the tune in it and of course after a few tries and phone calls to Elite it was running a lot better!

Did the preload
Return to stock
Level 2 tune
Level 3 tune which is running currently

In the process of pulling some of the connections loose some of the tabs broke but zip tied together after making sure I had a solid connection!
I’ve recorded and sent 11 catalogs to Elite Tuners they say my Mass Air flow should be in access of 400 g/s mine maxes out at 181! They told me it was the MAS Air Flow pigtail or sensor! I check continuity from all eight pins to where they connect to the other side (good) then ordered a Chinesium replacement thinking that just might make a difference! Definitely worse quality but still got the same readings telling me the Sensor at the Exit of the air cleaner was the same values!

Codes I’m getting are
P0128- coolant temp too low(assuming that was done180 degree thermostat)
P04DB- crankcase Vent sys disconnected(it is connected and working)
P224B-NOx sens heater resist Bank 1 Sens 2
P0676- cylinder 6 Glow Plug Circuit/ Open

The Service Throttle Control System knocks the tune out but resets with an ignition cycle (Keyless) and will stay running good for some time or do the same thing 5-10 miles down the road! Some days I can go most of the day without the Service Throttle Control System other days it’s every five minutes or so!


My question is, Is there anyone who knows exactly how the intake runner, butterfly valves in conjunction with the limit switches, ECM and Motor-gearbox under the intake work and is timing for the butterfly val


Service Electronic Throttle Control
I’m at wits end on this, I bought a 4x4 2016 Ram Eco diesel w 134,000 miles 2 months ago that I have been getting ready to flat tow behind my Motorhome for the last few years that I can! I’m old and Retired now!
When I bought it someone before me took out the afterburner thing before the muffler and did a tune, effectively removing the need to use DEF fluid and I’m assuming to get rid of the Check engine light and it ran fairly well! I read on these forums about people doing the same thing and taking the DEF tank out to increase fuel capacity for extended range but never clearly step by step read where anyone has done it successfully and then decided to go a different way since at that point I was getting 27 mpg on highway! Instead of using it for extended range, I wanted to utilize the DEF tank area for extra battery, air compressor and tank when I go off road and read Elite Diesels Tuning thing and talked to them about how they could adjust the tune for that, so I bought the kit!
It finally came in and My Jason and I started with the EGR delete and found so much crap in the intake that we decided to remove and clean and start pulling everything apart! Finally got the intake of and it was so clogged that those butterfly valve on half the intake runners were stuck wide open!
I’ve been a Service Tech all my life and assumed Car technology has been ahead of most automated controls and with the intake butterfly assembly with switches on both runners that control those valves would be tied to the ECModule telling what position those valves were in and simply trigger the motor that rotates the motor in the correct position to the open and closed!
Here’s the big question:
Like I said my son was helping me and I’m retired and the new intake came in during the middle of the week and I wanted it running! I didn’t rotate the Butterfly valves before putting the motor back on thinking I didn’t need to! I cleaned and cleaned the runner out as carefully as I could and reassembled it! Two days later I was ready to fire it up which I did with no problems at all waited for my son to come back to put the tune in it and of course after a few tries and phone calls to Elite it was running a lot better!
Did the preload
Return to stock
Level 2 tune
Level 3 tune which is running currently
In the process of pulling some of the connections loose some of the tabs broke but zip tied together after making sure I had a solid connection!
I’ve recorded and sent 11 catalogs to Elite Tuners they say my Mass Air flow should be in access of 400 g/s mine maxes out at 181! They told me it was the MAS Air Flow pigtail or sensor! I check continuity from all eight pins to where they connect to the other side (good) then ordered a Chinesium replacement thinking that just might make a difference! Definitely worse quality but still got the same readings telling me the Sensor at the Exit of the air cleaner was the same values!
Codes I’m getting are
P0128- coolant temp too low(assuming that was done180 degree thermostat)
P04DB- crankcase Vent sys disconnected(it is connected and working)
P224B-NOx sens heater resist Bank 1 Sens 2
P0676- cylinder 6 Glow Plug Circuit/ Open
The Service Throttle Control System knocks the tune out but resets with an ignition cycle (Keyless) and will stay running good for some time or do the same thing 5-10 miles down the road! Some days I can go most of the day without the Service Throttle Control System other days it’s every five minutes or so!
My question is, Is there anyone who knows exactly how the intake runner, butterfly valves in conjunction with the limit switches, ECM and Motor-gearbox under the intake work and is timing for the butterfly valves and Motor- gearbox essential for proper operation! Sorry for the Long read!
Please help!
Willem

 

[GearHead]

Yes a long read. I will try to provide some insight but may not be able to answer all questions. To start I own two ecodiesels, one in my 2014 RAM and one in my wife's 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee. My RAM has 180K+ miles and my wife has 200K+ miles.
First the Service Electronic Throttle System message is triggered by some 88 different code conditions. Your tuner may not have rectified all the systems that trigger that message.
The Diesel Paticulate Filter which uses the DEF being removed ties into the Service Electronic Throttle message, may not have been reprogrammed properly.
Yes the EGR system is a major issue with carbon sludge in the intake system with this engine. Mandated by EPA. This sludge jammed the valves in the wife's engine, stripping the gears in the actuator, replaced intake manifold with a Dorman products part (615-311), it is still poly-carbonate, Banks Power has an aluminum manifold with no EGR or Swirl Valve accommodations. The Swirl Valves are designed to close one port during warm up cycle to limit hp and exhaust emissions. Once Operating Temp is reached the valves run in open position. The function sensors are mounted at the ends of the valve shaft and are not contact sensors, they are magnets. Their proper function can trigger Service Electronic Throttle or a separate specific code. Your program may not have calculated for.
I laughed at the broken tab comment, these engineers must think we all have size small hands and that connects all stay clean and pristine during use. As long a the connection is tight, clean, I use electric systems cleaner and then Dielectric Silicon Grease, then your signal should be good. Our engine uses both a Mass Air Flow sensor and a Mass Atmospheric Pressure sensor with the ECM/PCM balancing. Your are correct in that your numbers for the Mass Air Flow are low, I am sure your first task was to check for air leaks in the intake system. You already replaced the MAF sensor with the same reading. One thing I have found is the scanner setting, Grams/Second or Grams/Hour can mess with your head. As a tech you may check the millivolt readings at the pins vs a scanner reading.
Your P0128 is due to your thermostat temp, stock is 208 F. Your programmer did not account for.
Your P04DB Crank case ventilation. Your sensor could be at fault since the system is connected and functioning.
Your P224B NoX sensor heater (bank 1 sensor 2). Your NoX downstream sensor preheater is bad, so the sensor is bad.
Youer P0676 #6 Glow Plug Circuit. Easily could be a bad connection from replacing intake manifold or a bad glow plug.

Your truck is already far past where I would like to go for reliability. With the EPA slowly but surely shutting down all the U.S. delete programers once you get all the wrinkles worked out save that program, back up that program. Good luck, Banks Power makes aroung 600hp with this engine for the U.S. DoD with no failures (also no EPA constraints). Keep working on the program and lining up the readings with the programmer.

Good Luck.

 

[Boomer56]

Yes a long read. I will try to provide some insight but may not be able to answer all questions. To start I own two ecodiesels, one in my 2014 RAM and one in my wife's 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee. My RAM has 180K+ miles and my wife has 200K+ miles.
First the Service Electronic Throttle System message is triggered by some 88 different code conditions. Your tuner may not have rectified all the systems that trigger that message.
The Diesel Paticulate Filter which uses the DEF being removed ties into the Service Electronic Throttle message, may not have been reprogrammed properly.
Yes the EGR system is a major issue with carbon sludge in the intake system with this engine. Mandated by EPA. This sludge jammed the valves in the wife's engine, stripping the gears in the actuator, replaced intake manifold with a Dorman products part (615-311), it is still poly-carbonate, Banks Power has an aluminum manifold with no EGR or Swirl Valve accommodations. The Swirl Valves are designed to close one port during warm up cycle to limit hp and exhaust emissions. Once Operating Temp is reached the valves run in open position. The function sensors are mounted at the ends of the valve shaft and are not contact sensors, they are magnets. Their proper function can trigger Service Electronic Throttle or a separate specific code. Your program may not have calculated for.
I laughed at the broken tab comment, these engineers must think we all have size small hands and that connects all stay clean and pristine during use. As long a the connection is tight, clean, I use electric systems cleaner and then Dielectric Silicon Grease, then your signal should be good. Our engine uses both a Mass Air Flow sensor and a Mass Atmospheric Pressure sensor with the ECM/PCM balancing. Your are correct in that your numbers for the Mass Air Flow are low, I am sure your first task was to check for air leaks in the intake system. You already replaced the MAF sensor with the same reading. One thing I have found is the scanner setting, Grams/Second or Grams/Hour can mess with your head. As a tech you may check the millivolt readings at the pins vs a scanner reading.
Your P0128 is due to your thermostat temp, stock is 208 F. Your programmer did not account for.
Your P04DB Crank case ventilation. Your sensor could be at fault since the system is connected and functioning.
Your P224B NoX sensor heater (bank 1 sensor 2). Your NoX downstream sensor preheater is bad, so the sensor is bad.
Youer P0676 #6 Glow Plug Circuit. Easily could be a bad connection from replacing intake manifold or a bad glow plug.

Your truck is already far past where I would like to go for reliability. With the EPA slowly but surely shutting down all the U.S. delete programers once you get all the wrinkles worked out save that program, back up that program. Good luck, Banks Power makes aroung 600hp with this engine for the U.S. DoD with no failures (also no EPA constraints). Keep working on the program and lining up the readings with the programmer.

Good Luck.

Thanks for your reply and it’s a lot of food for thought! What are your thoughts as far as putting the correct thermostat back in and the swirl valve timing or is it a lack of because of the magnetic switches! As mentioned before when I took the swirl valve motor off the old intake the valves where open, when I installed the old swirl valve motor onto the underside of the new intake the swirl valves were closed! Just making sure I clarify what I did and if needed go back and remove and make it right! Thanks!

 

[GearHead]

I would like to correct a miss-statement, the Select Catalyst Reduction uses the DEF, the ammonia reduction and catalyst reaction reduces the NoX content in the exhaust. With a tune to eliminate the SCR or both the SCR and the Diesel Particulate Filter the tune should have removed the information feed for the NoX sensors or doctored the reading to show correct function.
The higher temp thermostat is to reduce emissions and allow the SCR function better. The stock thermostat begins opening at 192 and is fully open at 208 F. Your tuner may have altered the fuel map to utilize the lower water temp (seen it before) so no I do not recommend changing back.
When I replaced the Jeep intake the valves were open, the manifold did not come with the valve motor or sensors so I transferred the old ones over and may the connections. The gears that stripped due to the carbon fouling in my case were at the valve shaft not the valve motor, I opened the motor case to check. On cold start up the valves close one port per cylinder and upon achieving operating temperature the valves completely open. If they do not there is a specific code for Swirl Valve Sensor out of range, which can set the Electronic Throttle message. I take it that you changed over the sensors as well as the valve motor. If so then when you started the engine the Swirl Valves would have cycled to the closed position and then once warmed up the valves would open, no problems. Did you buy an OEM manifold? They come with sensors installed. Aftermarket does not. Did you install the old sensors on the new manifold? None of the codes you listed involved the intake so I do not think that is your issue. When you receive the Service Electronic Throttle message you need to scan for codes, the ones listed will be the conditions that triggered the message. Start at the bottom of the list to correct issues. I know we always started at the top or first code before but this system is a little different. The Service Electronic Throttle condition sets the ECM/PCM into Limp Home Mode which sets the Turbo into low Boost and the fuel map to a baseline as well as changing the transmission shift points. When the Service Electronic Throttle sets the Limp Mode the first codes on the list will be for Low Turbo Boost (leading to replacing Turbo) and Fuel Injector Flow Below Potential (leading to replacing he Injectors) and Transmission Shift Point at Illogical Request (leading to a reflash of TCM) all of these codes and conditions are the result of the ETC message not what triggered the condition. The FCA ECM records the last known code as the first entry. That is the only way that you are going to figure out what condition is triggering your ETC and can then correct.
Good Luck.

 

[Boomer56]

I would like to correct a miss-statement, the Select Catalyst Reduction uses the DEF, the ammonia reduction and catalyst reaction reduces the NoX content in the exhaust. With a tune to eliminate the SCR or both the SCR and the Diesel Particulate Filter the tune should have removed the information feed for the NoX sensors or doctored the reading to show correct function.
The higher temp thermostat is to reduce emissions and allow the SCR function better. The stock thermostat begins opening at 192 and is fully open at 208 F. Your tuner may have altered the fuel map to utilize the lower water temp (seen it before) so no I do not recommend changing back.
When I replaced the Jeep intake the valves were open, the manifold did not come with the valve motor or sensors so I transferred the old ones over and may the connections. The gears that stripped due to the carbon fouling in my case were at the valve shaft not the valve motor, I opened the motor case to check. On cold start up the valves close one port per cylinder and upon achieving operating temperature the valves completely open. If they do not there is a specific code for Swirl Valve Sensor out of range, which can set the Electronic Throttle message. I take it that you changed over the sensors as well as the valve motor. If so then when you started the engine the Swirl Valves would have cycled to the closed position and then once warmed up the valves would open, no problems. Did you buy an OEM manifold? They come with sensors installed. Aftermarket does not. Did you install the old sensors on the new manifold? None of the codes you listed involved the intake so I do not think that is your issue. When you receive the Service Electronic Throttle message you need to scan for codes, the ones listed will be the conditions that triggered the message. Start at the bottom of the list to correct issues. I know we always started at the top or first code before but this system is a little different. The Service Electronic Throttle condition sets the ECM/PCM into Limp Home Mode which sets the Turbo into low Boost and the fuel map to a baseline as well as changing the transmission shift points. When the Service Electronic Throttle sets the Limp Mode the first codes on the list will be for Low Turbo Boost (leading to replacing Turbo) and Fuel Injector Flow Below Potential (leading to replacing he Injectors) and Transmission Shift Point at Illogical Request (leading to a reflash of TCM) all of these codes and conditions are the result of the ETC message not what triggered the condition. The FCA ECM records the last known code as the first entry. That is the only way that you are going to figure out what condition is triggering your ETC and can then correct.
Good Luck.

 

[Boomer56]

Thanks again, wished we lived a lot closer, I have a close friend that lives in Broken Arrow we’ve been trying to come up and visit. My son who is the tech master in my family is helping me with this! I really like this truck we bought it to flat tow behind my Motorhome and have already sunk a ton of money into it! Seems every time I do something to it I discover more that needs to be done and modern tuning I just don’t understand! Thanks for your responses and I’ll keep you updated on what we find and do!