VM Motori Drops 3.0 Ecodiesel media Campaign.

[TC Diesel]

How much Longer Will the current 3.0VM be available for Ram 1500 Pickup. VM looks to be gearing up for Industrail, Marine, Off-Road and Ag Productions. These current Engine being produce By VM look similar to FPT (Fiat Power Technologies line up) The 3.0VM V has already been dropped for Jeep. Heck, even VM no longer proud of the 630/3.0?.

The new line up looks promosing to Me, for Ag, Ind, Marine, Off-Road.

VM Motori

www.vmmotori.it

 

[Green Diesel]

My guess is the automotive 3.0l will die around 2025 when new emission standards and CAFE are in full effect. VM has been doing marine and industrial decades before they ventured into the automotive realm. Mercury uses their marine engines quite a bit. It would be quite the bummer to lose a bearing on the wide open seas. I always thought the 4.2 liter straight six could be a solid powerplant.

 

[TC Diesel]

Its was the Joint Venture with GM that created the 630/3.0. One has to ask WHY GM, Detroit Penske believed that VM 3.0 was road worthy why Sell.
IMO Ocaam's razor applies here, "the simplest solution is most likely the right one"

Its a good Business move to dump the 630 ASAP, FPT already has powerplants and the technology.
That MR 506 looks to be the 630 dressed for Marine use.

 

[Green Diesel]

Its was the Joint Venture with GM that created the 630/3.0. One has to ask WHY GM, Detroit Penske believed that VM 3.0 was road worthy why Sell.
IMO Ocaam's razor applies here, "the simplest solution is most likely the right one"

Its a good Business move to dump the 630 ASAP, FPT already has powerplants and the technology.
That MR 506 looks to be the 630 dressed for Marine use.

MR506 is the same base engine as Ram, modified for marine use. The 630 was designed for passenger car use and worked very well for that purpose. A truck engine should have a different design to handle the increased load factor. I agree a clean sheet design is warranted.

 

[Ronald Doupe]

Its was the Joint Venture with GM that created the 630/3.0. One has to ask WHY GM, Detroit Penske believed that VM 3.0 was road worthy why Sell.
IMO Ocaam's razor applies here, "the simplest solution is most likely the right one"

Its a good Business move to dump the 630 ASAP, FPT already has powerplants and the technology.
That MR 506 looks to be the 630 dressed for Marine use.

This is all new to you?, if not why did you buy a 2014 when new?, are you happy with your Hemi?, or in 2 years that will be trashed on the forum?, it just seams your all over the map on the Eco

 

[TC Diesel]

Maybe Ronald you should concern yourself more with the Facts.
This Engine is a miserable failure, Plague with problems No Owner should have to inherit.

Now if your a Nay Sayer your welcome to your Opinion.

Its a fact Owners from 2014-16 were 250+ times more likely to have engine Puke than any modern day engine rotating mass failure. The Industry's minimum for Rotating Mass failure is 1 Per 1000, Many months during 2014-16 VM failures are recorded at 250+ engines per month VM's productions and sales of the Eco was 2300-2600 Per month. I will help out with the failure ratio. Most powerplant makers would have 2 to 2.5 engines fail per 2500 engines. This is almost all Powerplant makers shutdown Production ratio's. When the rate goes above 1 Per 1000 R/D pull engines off the production line runs them 24/7 tare's them down to locate why they fail. Every source I have has clearly indicted that production would halt YES halt at 100 Per 1000, heck they halt at 10 Per 1000 and correction made to meet the 1 per 1000 Standard. NOT VM. This Made hurt you feelings Ronald Your Beloved VM continued to produce the VM 3.0 and dump them on Americas soil, So fools would buy that POS powerplant. You are welcome to ignore the facts and spend your capital as you like. As For Me I value matters on the Facts Not the perverted morals grounds Many Humans have adopted. My posting is for People to have another view of the 3.0 and To make the decision to purchase Knowing the inherit risk involved and the possible future Cost.

So lets talk some more about the 3.0 VM , Every 3.0 Sold in America was Illegally Sold from 2014-16 Only a fool would believe that VM was not aware of the AECD violations of the CAA, I posted Mid 2015 it would fail EPA CAA Standards, and Jan 1 2017 the US GOV agree with Me and brought legal Action to VM/Fait and FCA .All the exchanger failures, Plenum failures, Turbo Failures, EGR failures, the elevated Fire Risks, Tone ring failures, SCR failures, DEF failures, Water pump failures etc at rates WAY above current productions standards make the VM 3.0 as the most risk inherit Dsl in America.

I support current Owners to Delete NOT because its the right thing to do. Its the fact if you don't and its used for DD, its likely it will cost $1000s in future repairs leave you stranded or worst Fire's. The risk to violating the law is NOT equal to the risk NON-Deleted owners have. If My posting save's someone from the nightmare's that 1000s of 3.0 owners suffered its worth the attacks the 1500diesel.com and ALL the Nay sayer's fake posting they produce everyday . Now I will make another prediction many of the fires ARE NOT related to the leaky EGR, many of them have started in the Plenum and Turbo Area, The Leaky EGR is Just one source of the fires.

Ronald You are welcome to incur the risks the VM 3.0 has ,Subject yourself to that risk, You are welcome to challenge My Opinion. But in all fairness Please post something Good about the VM 3.0 other than MPG , Because MPG is NO longer the 3.0 Advantage ,Current Gas engines have made that a NON-Issue 2019+. In the 1/2 Ton Market.

 

[TC Diesel]

Ronald, My 2015 was ordered and I welcome the 3.0VM and wanted it to be a big success, This would have open the Door to My Dsl business to Make $$$$, I absolutely refuse to lower My standards on Dsl powerplants for profit.

Also Ronald I don't make claims WITHOUT merit and will change My position(s) and make correction when its clear I'm wrong or incorrect. I work hard at NOT letting Pride effect My Judgment(s)t and when corrected will be yielding.

 

[TC Diesel]

Just to add , I did error in My judgement from 2015-18 I tried everything to Make My 3.0 last Without tuning, Even My wife stated I never seen you (Todd) baby sit a motor more than that 2015. I should have change My position earlier. You just cannot avoid repairs in DD use WITHOUT making parts missing upgrades.

 

[boosti]

If the 3.0 was an utter failure. How come did FCA come out with a 2020 Ecodiesel model. I still hear a few people claim they never experienced a problem with the Ecodiesel Ram yet. All makes and models will experience an issue. FCA wouldn’t continue the Ecodiesel if it’s a failure!

 

[John]

The 2020 is a new generation ecodiesel and improvements have been made. All things considered the ecodiesel has proven to be a good powerplant. It did make the prestigious Wards 10 Best Engines list for the three consecutive years — 2014-16. Unfortunately the bottom end failures were considerably above industry standards. Most owners share a very positive experience.

 

[Brady]

Lol, TC is not all over the map on the Eco. He's been consistent in his opinion from the get go and very knowledgeable. And he is right about a lot of things.

 

[TC Diesel]

LMBO, Wards best engines is equal to getting a promotion form changing Tires to Brakes. (OEM)

Fait / Dumped a known problematic engine on N/A. I will just post some internal Fiat/VM communications in the Future.
What! Violating Federal Laws, Industry standards, false claims, looks to be welcome By Many Eco Owners, Fiat lower its Bar so low in their relationship to VM it has cost them $Billion$. I have stated Several Times its a Hero - Zero relation ship with the VM 3.0.

The 2020 3.0 is laden with old outdated Technology Dumped by many Power Plant makers Cat, Cummins, JD and Others, My guess (3.0) is already on Death row and Fiat either goin to stop Production or change the Powerplant entirely, It will be just another market crash for current owners.

If Fiat wants to stay in the 1/2 Market they have the resources and the Knowledge to do so, Those New engines (at VM) that have FPT insight are likely to be awesome. We'll just have to see.

The engine internal design and operation are well suited for use when upgraded to Missing parts.( When assemble well) if you own the 3.0, better put it on a missing parts diet.

Just to give some sound comparisons, Today I talked to 2013 Owner with a Cummins Ram That has 855K miles with Same Aisin69 and on his 2nd Pump and Injectors, its all Stock Bumper to Bumper. I know of 5.9, Duramax, and some 7.3 Fords with 1 Million miles.

I also know of Many OTR trucks with Detriots, Cat, Cummins, Paco, Volvo, Mack, Nav with 1.2+ million, gas engines making 400K Miles. Ag and commercial stand alone Motors wit 12,000 Hrs+

I have yet to hear of a 400K 3.0. Vern's at what 350K now? he might just make it. 1 out of 115,000.......Hmmmmm

 

[VernDiesel]

IMO best thing to do to get the 2014 thru 2020 gen 2 ED in the 4th gen body to live its full life, aside from normal oil & Mopar fuel filter changes is to get a basic aftermarket tune. One that turns off EGR to get your engine running clean mostly by eliminating re-ingesting clogging soot & diesel asphaltene hard particles. Plus better fuel economy more power and options including an engine brake. Such as this link; https://hddieselsupply.ca/i-3164307...ne-hand-held-device.html?ref=category:1334979

Eventually the EGR cooler will also start to leak. Hot exhaust still goes through the EGR cooler even when the EGR is turned off. Disappearing coolant from your degass tank aka overflow bottle will be the main confirmation of this. Cheaper simpler and more permanent than replacing an EGR cooler that you no longer need and that unnecessarily taxes the cooling system is a simple EGR cooler delete kit such as this link: https://noecodelete.com/product/no-eco-egr-delete-kit/

However I would not recommend doing the EGR cooler delete until post drivetrain warranty at least not if you don't yet have disappearing coolant. Theoretically the tune could be used to void warranty as well. Historically & practically speaking not so much.

I believe the EGR cooler leak is what caused the low coolant excessive heat pressure & steam that led to the head gasket failing on my first motor at 371,000. At the time I was towing a TT and didn't realize I was low on coolant. So keep an eye on the coolant level in your degass tank and don't let it below the seam. If you have to add coolant more than once to keep it at or above the seam you likely have an EGR cooler starting to leak. This is often missed as it leaks internally and what isn't steamed if it does that or evaporated comes out your tailpipes so there is no leak puddles to find. The 2nd motor is going strong at 292,000 towing TTs across the country daily. Buddy James has 340,000 on his ED doing the same. I believe you remove the root EGR problems that you can have an engine that lives a normal light duty diesel engine life. Even when regularly used to tow to the rated limits of your particular ED engine equipped vehicle.

The 3rd gen ED in the 5th gen body has both a largely revamped engine with 80 percent new parts and a completely redesigned emission system. The Gen 2 ED emissions system was an add on to an existing engine that was designed to work with European emissions systems. I wouldn't expect the new EDs with a from the ground up designed in & integrated emissions system to suffer the same ailments as the first one. FYI my truck now has 663,000 with the original transmission and I hope to keep working it to a million miles. Time will tell. Hope you enjoy your truck as much as I have mine.

 

[Green Diesel]

The ZF trans is very nice. The 2020 Gen3 engine will have its own issues that need addressing. Some issues will be related to the Gen2 engine and others will be new issues based on the changed hardware. It is still a poor integration on the engine compared to Ford or GM.

 

[TC Diesel]

The ZF partnered with FCA 2011-13, and is Licensed to Produce ZF Transmissions, currently at Kokomo and Gray Court.

NO WAY.... would ZF allowed FCA to produce its Transmissions with Failure Rates equal to VM 3.0. Production would have been Stopped and corrections Made even if it took Years. 2014

That Trans is robust predictable and rarely fails. 8HP-70/75

The ZF 9-Speed has been plagued with Problems, Some finger pointing going on, will need to see how that works out.

The problem escalated in 2016 that prior approval was NOT necessary for Transmission replacement. (ZF-9) Our 2016 Cherokee (Limited) has been flawless, and Our 2018 Summit is Awesome.

I can see why Transmissions have years of problems. What's the ratio it takes 9 times+ more bandwidth for trans operation. Most AT have 500 distinct parts +- 200, engine rotating mass about 100 and only function for one Purpose. Someone correct on this if I'm wrong.

 

[VernDiesel]

Yes the German ZF 8 speed transmission has proven itself outstanding around the world in performance luxary cars and now even in a moderate weight moderate torque towing application. My truck tows mostly 5 to 8k travel trailers and makes around 465 TQ with tune. I've been towing with it almost since new and never a repair. Its now getting rave reviews behind the 6.4 Hemi in the 2500 also.

To the 2nd gen ED when no longer forced to ingest the unburnt soot it might not have the soot plugged intake fires. When its not forced to ingest unburnt diesel asphaltene hard particles via EGR that end up in the oil to scratch bearing surfaces might not have as many bearing failures which bearing failure is typically how this engine fails. BTW when fuel pumps fail what do you find in the tank and system asphaltene hard particles well and water. Hense the recomendation to service and stick with the Mopar fuel water seperator combo filter. When the gen 2 no longer has the ridiculous regen stategy via a poor then worse AEM tune plus post burn injection all of which flood the thing with unburnt diesel may prove to be a little gem of a motor as it has elsewhere around the world. Most of these maladies come back to the EPA forced emission requirements including the tune. What was the other recommendation rid the leaking EGR cooler. Another EPA forced emission related part thats been reaking havoc. Seven years in production for Ram now the gen 2 ED might not be the catastrophic failure you claim it to be. And while only FCA knows ish the failure rate by 100,000 miles I have to agree its way too high. So why not help people with this stuff instead of just ranting.

Green What new engine hardware issues are you thinking the gen 3 is going to have and why? What specifically is poorly integrated with respects to the emission system and whats the problem you see? What is different and better about Ford & GM's new emission system compared to FCA's and what makes you think that is better?

Look I know you guys are all about bashing the ED & FCA. But don't most people just come here for help & solutions to making their truck better and to last and to minimize costly downtime. Lots of 200k plus EDs out their some post on the main ED forum so its not like it cannot be done. People just need help with navigating the EPAs emissions land mines that have affected this diesel probably even more profoundly than other diesels with the possible exceptions of the Ford 6.0 & 6.4 engines. The never ending bitching & dogging doesn't help anyone. Small diesels are a great idea for some applications and IMO should remain as one of the engine choices for 1/2 ton trucks. Their probably should be a 5 to 10 percent take rate for all Mfgr 1/2 ton truck sales when properly matched to how or what the truck is used for. I remember 5 years ago TC when you used to try to help ED owners. Sure you would ignore forum rules and constantly get in arguments with people and I get it lawyers argue by nature and by occupation but at least your heart seemed in the right place. Well hopefully this at least provides some food for thought. Now to get my mask and gloves and I'm off to get my last Airsteam to transport to Florida until after things return to normal.

 

[TC Diesel]

Vern, You own ONE truck Thats It...Your sources are limited to 90%+ info second hand at Best. You claim that the New Emission resolves the 3.0 Problems will be short lived. Your Beloved Truck Is NOT OEM its used in commercial use that's equals what? Your example is misleading at best for the Greater % of Ecodiesel owners.

Vern I remember 5 years ago and It was your worthless 1550diesel.xxx Mods and their NOW proven incorrect fake info that 1000s of Owners have suffer Heartache, misery, untold financial losses.

LMBO about 1500diesel.xxx (Rules) which are tantamount to massaging the Mods that worship the 3.0 Gods. Its a fact the 2014-19 is laden with Problems that buyer's NEVER should be subject to.

Vern I have help 1000s of owners stay clear of the VM3.0, Offered untold Hrs of Tech support helping these Owners that cannot get out of the fanicial loses incur, Heck Last week His Name is Rick hat to put $8000.00 on loan to fix his puke engine.

From My Observation and Professional Opinion YOUR low standard and covering with misleading info is equal to the Damage path the 3.0 leaves for the Many 3.0 Owners.

Vern, I'm NOT going lower Myself down to 1 Owners success when that Owners success is the exception and NO where close to the Norm.
Vern , There are 100,000s of trucks doing commercial work that are CAA compliant.

Vern You Have the same mentality as the rest of the Mods at 1550diesel.xxx Personal Attacks, You would believe a bird that flew in the window if it was a members at 1500diesel.xxx and worshiped the 3.0VM Gods.

Vern More on a personal Note ,I hope to ill wills to you and Your travels, The road a very dangerous Place. Even Thou we disagree on a whole host of Matters and lock up on keystrokes and have heated Debates, Both of us need to put are difference away when it comes to the safety of others.

 

[VernDiesel]

Strike a nerve did I? I help people with their ED you hate it. It offends your world view where in government is your god can do no wrong and a bigger more powerful government is the solution to all. NOT OEM! The horrors to improve the Gov tune or engine management of my own truck. You think that is a sin. Like you grew up the son of a communist dictator and the state owns my property. I don't believe you need to censor free speech through a state-ist gov filter. Let people have all the information and allow them to decide how they want to take care of their property.

 

[TC Diesel]

LMBO ,Vern You would be banned if you made statements like that at 1500diesel.xxx.
Don't give Me your crap about GOV regulations. We ALL have a certain measure of responsibility to our environment.

What can't you comprehend, I tried to keep My 3.0VM legal for over 3+ Years, My Data and experience change My Stand , NOT some Rambo-wannabe keystroke fanatic. Now I recommend at the sacrifice violating the Law to upgrade to missing parts.

The Communist dictators are You Vern and your Contemporaries at 1500diesel.xxx. Vern You have to come Here and take advantage of Boostn Kindness to challenge Me. This will really stick in your crawl back in 2016 1550diesel.xxx what 26K Members? (Before I left) now its down to 16K ,and out of that 16K your cheating ratings because many have left and cannot delete their account?

I was deleting My Postings when Blue or 97hmcs banned Me, Why Don't you go back to 1500diesel.xxx and delete ALL most Postings , and I mean ALL, if I was so darn destructive? Just like most things at 1500diesel.xxx , misleading info is welcome and if you challenge our beloved 3.0 or question the Mods tactics. BOOM BANNNED.

Vern read My Sig Thats My stand.